Jason Lewis: Is Jake Muzzin a Norris Caliber Defensemen?

No.

No.
- 1979AD

Thanks for reading.

Your article was a great read. In LA, I think he will always get overlooked because of doughty. However if muzzin was on a different team lacking a stud d man, I would definitely revisit the question. Great read though

Your article was a great read. In LA, I think he will always get overlooked because of doughty. However if muzzin was on a different team lacking a stud d man, I would definitely revisit the question. Great read though
- dothedougie

Thanks! Yea I definitely think he is playing in the shadow of Doughty a bit, much like Suter was in Nashville with Weber.



Also, if you are only going to answer "No." I will only accept it in the form of this:

Not with Doughty still playing

But I will tell you this; I was confident enough to drop Ehrhoff and Edler and Trade Yandle to bring in Muzzin through FA, Josi through FA and McDonaugh should be back off waivers soon.

I think Muzzin will end up +20 with 40 points.

Thanks! Yea I definitely think he is playing in the shadow of Doughty a bit, much like Suter was in Nashville with Weber.



Also, if you are only going to answer "No." I will only accept it in the form of this:


- Jason_Lewis

Thanks! Yea I definitely think he is playing in the shadow of Doughty a bit, much like Suter was in Nashville with Weber.



Also, if you are only going to answer "No." I will only accept it in the form of this:


- Jason_Lewis

He's got some work to do before he's Norris calibre. They award the Norris recently almost like a most points award. Doughty's even a Norris long shot.

Thanks for reading.
- Jason_Lewis

Muzzin is a Norris 7th-10th place voting placement. He could get more, but he's not going to get the recognition if he ever gets that good. Players like Rafalski were amazing but never got the recognition behind Stevens/Lidstrom, nor will Muzzin behind Doughty/Voynov (if/when he comes back).

Hell no..... trade bait.

Nope. To win a Norris you must produce more than 65 points. Its all about points.

Muzzin is a very underrated Dman in the nhl. He plays 20+ minutes a night, PK and PP time, makes very few mistakes in his own end and can put up points every so often. Oh and if I'm not mistaken, he led the nhl in corsi I believe. Is he a Norris candidate, no. The Norris, to me, doesn't even go to the best defender anymore (Karlsson). You have to put up 50+ points to even get mentioned for the Norris whether you play well in your zone or not. Plus, you have automatic Norris contenders like Keith, weber, Doughty(if people stay up to watch him), Subban and Karlsson ... If Doughty couldn't win the Trophy in '10 (NHL 82 G16 A43 P59 +20), which I think he got robbed of the trophy because it was lidstrom a last season, then good luck to Muzzin

[quote=poisondhearts37]
Yeaaah. The Norris is a joke since the new decade. Lidstrom winning it 2012 (despite me being happy about it) was the turning point of it being bleh. Karlsson and Subban winning it is terrible. Keith is the only winner of the decade who deserved it for defensive plays.

Yeaaah. The Norris is a joke since the new decade. Lidstrom winning it 2012 (despite me being happy about it) was the turning point of it being bleh. Karlsson and Subban winning it is terrible. Keith is the only winner of the decade who deserved it for defensive plays.
- CreepyPasta

Karlsson is legit IMO. Subban was good in a lockout shortened season. Take that for what it's worth.

Karlsson is legit IMO. Subban was good in a lockout shortened season. Take that for what it's worth.
- Jason_Lewis

True enough. It was given to the best defenseman by today's NHL standards. It might mean something today, but I'd rather have a defensively minded player than a Karlsson/Subban myself. But then again, my idol, Lidstrom, was a phenom on the two-way play and he won it more than half a dozen times.

Karlsson is legit IMO. Subban was good in a lockout shortened season. Take that for what it's worth.
- Jason_Lewis

Sure if you refuse to consider the defensive zone as part of the equation.

Karlsson is an elite offensive player, horrible in his own zone. How that equated to a Norris trophy winner is beyond me.

Karlsson is legit IMO. Subban was good in a lockout shortened season. Take that for what it's worth.
- Jason_Lewis

I wouldn't say Karlsson is legit at playing D. He's a turnover machine. He'd drive me nuts on my team.

I wouldn't say Karlsson is legit at playing D. He's a turnover machine. He'd drive me nuts on my team.
- ClarkHitsBell

He's unreal offensively though. He's a great player, but him winning an award for defense over Shea Weber or Drew Doughty makes me laugh

Would you take Muzzin or Brodie on your team, you can only have 1.

Karlsson is legit IMO. Subban was good in a lockout shortened season. Take that for what it's worth.
- Jason_Lewis

Sorry going to have to disagree with you here. Karlsson recievea on average 40seconds of ice time per game on the PK and has a grand total of 17 blocked shots doesn't seem like Norris numbers to me. Doughty in the other hand 3min of PK time per game and 38 blocked shots. Ottawa doesn't even want him on the PK he is such a reliability

He's unreal offensively though. He's a great player, but him winning an award for defense over Shea Weber or Drew Doughty makes me laugh
- sbroads24

100%. There should be no Norris trophy. It should be split into a Chelios award and an Orr award.
Chelios winners are the best stay-at-home defensemen/best in their own zone players on the blue line who exemplify their actual position.
Orr winners are the best two-way/offensive players in the game on the blue line. Players such as Coffey, Karlsson, Borque, would win this day-in-day out.

Players such as Lidstrom, Weber, Doughty, Ray Borque would have/will win both awards as two-way players. It'd promote more responsible defensive playing while striving for a solid position on the point. True power play quarterbacks who are stalwarts in their own zone would be rewarded for doing what they are actually described as by their position.

Karlsson and Subban are more of Rovers than actual d-men.

100%. There should be no Norris trophy. It should be split into a Chelios award and an Orr award.
Chelios winners are the best stay-at-home defensemen/best in their own zone players on the blue line who exemplify their actual position.
Orr winners are the best two-way/offensive players in the game on the blue line. Players such as Coffey, Karlsson, Borque, would win this day-in-day out.

Players such as Lidstrom, Weber, Doughty, Ray Borque would have/will win both awards as two-way players. It'd promote more responsible defensive playing while striving for a solid position on the point. True power play quarterbacks who are stalwarts in their own zone would be rewarded for doing what they are actually described as by their position.

Karlsson and Subban are more of Rovers than actual d-men.
- CreepyPasta

But didn't you know these players aren't really necessary? You need 6 puck moving Corsi gods. Physicality, intangibles do not matter because they cannot be measured on a pretty looking graph. (end sarcasm)

But didn't you know these players aren't really necessary? You need 6 puck moving Corsi gods. Physicality, intangibles do not matter because they cannot be measured on a pretty looking graph. (end sarcasm)
- sbroads24

(frank) Corsi. Puck movers are great as long as they can stop the opposing puck movers.

I think the days of pure defenders are over with Stevens, Chelios, Schneider retiring. Two-way players (Doughty, Weber, Green) or pure offensive d-men (Letang, Karlsson, Subban) are the only ones who get the true credit. Rarely do you hear about Bouwmeester or Suter being the best d-men around.

(frank) Corsi. Puck movers are great as long as they can stop the opposing puck movers.

I think the days of pure defenders are over with Stevens, Chelios, Schneider retiring. Two-way players (Doughty, Weber, Green) or pure offensive d-men (Letang, Karlsson, Subban) are the only ones who get the true credit. Rarely do you hear about Bouwmeester or Suter being the best d-men around.
- CreepyPasta

I think Suter was number 2 against Subban in votes. Watching Bouwmeester he isn't actually that great. His skating ability in uncanny though. I went to training camp and they did lines for like 15 minutes. Everyone was falling down tired. It didn't even look like Jay broke a sweat. He is also a smart player.

I think we can all agree it has been Gio so far this year though. And if you think it is because he is getting a lot of point you obviously don't watch the flames. He is getting point because he is dominating everyone defensively which is providing Calgary with great opportunities.

I thought Doughty should of won it last year. Keith had a great offensive season thought which put him ahead.

Edit: I also hate Corsi. At least how people regard corsi. Corsi is a shooting statistic and NOT and possession statistic. End of story.